Posted by Rainer Kolbicz rainer@uboat.net on October 13, 2001.

I came across some tonnage differences, perhaps has someone of the readers here other sources available and can check this further.

Swedish steam merchant ALGERIA, built 1921.
Gröner: 1617 grt
Rohwer and Lloyds: 1619 grt
Jordan: 1543 grt
Official Swedish documents: 1540 grt

Swedish motor merchant LIMA, built 1918
Gröner, the owner and official Swedish documents: 3764 grt
Rohwer and Lloyds: 4959 grt
Jordan: 3805 grt

Many thanks in advance
Regards
Rainer Kolbicz

RESPONSES:

Posted by Øistein Thomas Berge othberg@online.no on October 13.

Hello Rainer

The tonnage was in 1940.

Algeria 1619 brt.
Call-sign SLFA
Build 1921 at Oskershamn mek. Verksted.
A/B Svenska Lloyd, Gøteborg.

Lima 3762 brt.
Call-sign SHJA
Build 1918 at Burmeister & Wains København.
Owner A/B Nordstjernan (Axel Johnson).

Best regards
Øistein
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Posted by Jan-Olof jan-olof.hendig@telia.com on October 13.

Do you have any idea where, for instance the tonnage 4959 comes from with regards to the Lima. That number can be found in "Lloyd's War Losses". Is it a mistake, was the ship rebuilt or what?
Also, according to the shipping line, the recognition letters were KBJM, perhaps they were changed during the war?

Regards Jan-Olof
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Posted by Rainer Kolbicz on October 15.

Øistein

Thank you for that information. But can you please tell me your source? The infos from Gröner I have mentioned are from 1940.

Regards
Rainer
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Posted by Roger W Jordan rogwj@aol.com on October 17.

Rainer

An interesting question, and one which has been asked many times over the years.
The differences that you cite, which were quite common with Swedish, Finnish and Belgian vessels, among others, came about because of the measurement rules of Lloyd's Register of Shipping.

In mid-1939, the tonnages for ALGERIA were:
1543 gross, 971 net (according to Swedish registrar and according to Lloyd's Confidential Index)
1617 gross, 803 net (according to Lloyd's Shipping Index and Lloyd's Register Book).

At the same time the tonnages for LIMA were:
3805 gross, 2833 net (Swedish registrar and Lloyd's Confidential Index)
3764 gross, 2254 net (Lloyd's Shipping Index and Lloyd's Register Book).

Both of these vessels were surveyed and classed to Lloyd's Register rules and tonnage figures were arrived at in accordance with British rules and were those figures accepted under British law. However, the other tonnage figures (in this case Swedish registrar's tonnage figures), were those arrived at in accordance with the measurement rules of the country of registration and according to the law of the country to which the vessel belonged (i.e. Sweden).

Such differences have not been helpful to researchers in later years, although the introductory pages of Lloyd's Register (LR) Book does give an explanation as to how these differences can be identified in that book. Where differences do occur, LR shows the tonnages of foreign vessels measured to British rules in italic typeface. It did not, however, show the other set of tonnage figures.

Lloyd's Register Book and Lloyd's Shipping Index did both show the same tonnages, but Lloyd's Confidential Index, which was my own reference for my book "The World's Merchant Fleets 1939", has the official tonnages of the country of origin.

As for the larger tonnage (4959 gross) for LIMA, this was the closed shelterdeck tonnage (applied to most Johnson Line vessels), and the smaller tonnage was the open shelterdeck tonnage. These changed from time to time, and the only reliable source for what tonnages were currently in use was the monthly official list published by the Swedish registrar.

Hope this is helpful.

Regards
Roger W Jordan